Valve Gets It

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:54 pm

Further proof that Valve understands PC gaming better than anyone else. (Although I will continue to give Blizzard credit as they have always supported the Mac fairly well)

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/03/08/valve_apple_worked_closely_to_bring_steam_to_mac.html

Forget for a moment that virtually no on here cares about the Mac as a gaming platform.

Quote:

Steam users who own games for the PC will be able to download and play the same games available on the Mac for free, and the new "Steam Play" feature will allow gamers on both Windows and Mac OS X to play online, with or against each other, regardless of their system.

I own a whole slew of PC games on Steam, now I can play those that are compatible with Mac on my Mac without rebuying them. Furthermore I can play with PC counterparts and I'm not segregated into a Mac only room that's likely not to have very many players.

Despite the fact that it cost Valve additional money to port these games to the Mac they're not expecting people that use both platforms to pay for it on both platforms. That is simply awesome and deserves kudos.

Forest Gnome Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 133

I agree.
Valve makes me wanna buy all my games thru them.
Valve +1

Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:32 pm

This was an interesting move for Valve and I'm glad to see they aren't alienating their current PC owners by making sure that their current purchases can move to Mac should they choose to.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:22 am

About the only thing Valve could do that'd make me happier is say if you want to distribute through Steam you cannot use third party DRM.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:07 am

Quote:

Furthermore I can play with PC counterparts and I'm not segregated into a Mac only room that's likely not to have very many players.

Wasn't aware that this was an issue, given that both OSX and Windows use TCP/IP and UDP protocols for networking.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:10 am

I'm pretty sure Xbox 360 uses TCP/IP protocols too..... it seems to be an issue there with games such as Modern Warefare 2 and every other console game that are the same on both platforms.

Just because platforms CAN communicate doesn't mean the software maker will let them.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:33 pm

Console players can't play with PC players because the control scheme differences destroy any hope of a level playing field, and that's a valid reason for keeping them separate. Segregating PC players from Mac players would be entirely arbitrary, and a rather trivial thing to "fix". Honestly I can't even think of a game off the top of my head that separates Windows, Linux, and Mac players online.

It's cool that Valve is branching out their services, but all this is really doing is allowing people to not buy the same game again if for some reason they prefer to play on their mac but didn't buy the mac version first for whatever reason. It's not really going to do much for the lack of mac games. Just seems like the interweb is making a bigger deal out of this than necessary.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:55 pm

Quote:

Console players can't play with PC players because the control scheme differences destroy any hope of a level playing field, and that's a valid reason for keeping them separate.

I understand WHY PC and Console gamers are separate I was merely pointing out that you off-handly saying since the protocols are the same it's not a big deal was a vacuous statement.

Cyanide wrote:

It's not really going to do much for the lack of mac games. Just seems like the interweb is making a bigger deal out of this than necessary.

Yeah, it's just going to guarantee that all of Valve's games are Mac compatible on day 1 and are supported the same as their pc counter-parts. That's not going to improve Mac gaming at all.

Valve is one of the last refuges of PC gaming and them supporting Mac IS a big deal. The fact they're treating games the same across all platforms is breath of fresh air in an era where media companies want you to re-purchase the same thing over and over again for different platforms. DVDs versus Digital downloads for example.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:27 pm

SiliconCowboy wrote:

vacuous

Ha, haven't heard that one in a few years.

SiliconCowboy wrote:

Valve is one of the last refuges of PC gaming and them supporting Mac IS a big deal.

Macs are still completely overpriced IMHO, so though this doesn't affect me directly, I applaud Valve for their forward thinking.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:04 pm

If you could find a list of games in which PC and mac users are separated for online play, that'd be cool. Or perhaps just name a couple that you can think of off the top of your head.

I don't think "enabling mac and PC players to play together" is a big deal because I can't think of a game that doesn't already enable that, and I can't imagine how terrible the application design would have to be to create network communication incompatibilities where there currently are none. The very idea that that's a feature seems vacuous to me.

Also, Valve is one company that puts out a game or 2 every few years. Yes, they are a great PC developer, but one developer showing a little launch day support for macs is hardly a huge shift for the industry. Bringing Steam to OSX is being way over hyped by the mac fanboy blogosphere. When big publishers like EA or THQ or Activision start promising launch day support for macs from all their games, that will be a big deal worthy of hype.

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:37 pm

Okay I will secede that inter-operability could be over-blown. Most of the games that have bothered to support OS X have made that a priority.

I however will not withdraw the point that your initial argument was poor. Just because two things can communicate physically does not mean they are interoperable.

To be truly compatible the applications network stack have to stay in sync, that means that anything that changes the network communication methods will need to be released at the same time. Meaning you can't treat Mac OS X as a secondary platform.

Finding a list of games that meet this criteria would be too time consuming as I am a busy man. Work + Grad School + Consulting Projects.

Perhaps the fact the two can play together is being over-blow but Steam coming to the Mac is not. I believe it's safe to say that Steam is the single largest multi-game digital distribution platform (I'm going to ignore cell phone games as games). Valve is making it known that they feel there's value in bringing the Mac platform into the Steam community and that will encourage the other developers to follow suit.

Since you mentioned EA they do bring a lot of their big-name (non-fps) games over to Mac. Prior to Madden's PC cancelation it was released. The most recent versions of the SIMs and Spore were both released at the same time.

Activision has also released a number of OS X games, although they most notably do not release at the same time as the PC. Most recently they released Modern Warfare (not two) and interestingly enough it was not (initially at least) compatible with PC clients. [http://www.vgblogger.com/?p=4010]

Gaming on the Mac has been gaining steam slowly and this could be the boost it finally needs. The fact Mac computers are shipping with Video cards that are actually capable of half-decent rendering is also certainly a help. (The source engine should do especially well on it as it's always scaled well)

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:31 pm

SiliconCowboy wrote:

I however will not withdraw the point that your initial argument was poor. Just because two things can communicate physically does not mean they are interoperable.

Ok I guess I just have to say it. You misinterpreted the intended meaning of my initial argument. Perhaps that was my fault for not being more verbose with my reasoning, but the argument was the same in that first post as it was in my last one. Network compatibility is not an issue between PCs and macs.

Quote:

To be truly compatible the applications network stack have to stay in sync, that means that anything that changes the network communication methods will need to be released at the same time. Meaning you can't treat Mac OS X as a secondary platform.

Which brings me to the next extrapolation of my argument, which is that any incompatibilities between mac and PC clients are almost certainly the result of developers not updating both applications concurrently. Valve can do absolutely nothing to fix that, and so those incompatibilities will remain, and have the same effect they've always had.

Quote:

Finding a list of games that meet this criteria would be too time consuming as I am a busy man. Work + Grad School + Consulting Projects.

So glad you could find the time to make all these posts. Wink

Quote:

Perhaps the fact the two can play together is being over-blow but Steam coming to the Mac is not. I believe it's safe to say that Steam is the single largest multi-game digital distribution platform (I'm going to ignore cell phone games as games). Valve is making it known that they feel there's value in bringing the Mac platform into the Steam community and that will encourage the other developers to follow suit.

You are correct that Steam is the largest digital distribution platform for PC games. However, they're still just a distributor. They do not carry the same influence as a full blown publisher, and so can not do much to direct the decisions of developers. Developers/publishers make the decision to support mac based on whether or not they think it is financially beneficial to put in the necessary development time. And even though Steam is the largest digital distribution platform, it's still small potatoes compared to brick and mortar retail. Meaning its influence is probably far less than those of us in the tech-geek crowd would like to think.

Quote:

Gaming on the Mac has been gaining steam slowly and this could be the boost it finally needs. The fact Mac computers are shipping with Video cards that are actually capable of half-decent rendering is also certainly a help. (The source engine should do especially well on it as it's always scaled well)

lol..."gaining steam". No pun intended right Very Happy

. But seriously, mac gaming has been just around the corner for well over a decade. It's going to take way more than Steam support to make it a serious contender. Like perhaps much more competitive pricing, and more quantifiable reasons for choosing OSX over Windows or Linux, since personal preference seems the only reason for 99% of computer users.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:24 am

1. Mac gaming is only "gaining steam" (I like the pun) because Apple has successfully marketed their hardware to the tweens and teens. I still find that Apple products in general are just over-priced and over-hyped. For the price difference, I can't honestly find a reason to switch to a Mac other than then "shiny" interface (which Microsoft has imitated [copied] quite well in Vista & Windows 7).

2. As far as the network comparability goes, I'm siding with Cyanide on it. I can't think of any reason that a Mac could not communicate with a PC. As for interoperability, I argue that it depends on the level of interaction that you're talking about as to whether a Mac and PC are "compatible". In respect to gaming, as long as the developers supported the Mac the same data should be being passed to the game servers, making this entire point moot. This became infinitely easier once Apple reluctantly decided to support the x86 architecture.

3. This is nice, I miss seeing a good debate on here Very Happy

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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:20 am

Other developers are also taking interest in the platform:

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/03/10/valve-on-mac-piques-interest-from-other-game-developers/